An analysis of current events...

[grusome]

Good post Falcon, except you missed one very important difference. DTV sued the crap out of everyone they could get their hands on and harrassed and even got a lot of folks put in jail. (not talking about the end users, but, the coders, no jailed end users that I know of). Dish hasn't gone that far yet. But, if they don't manage to get things under some sort of control, I fully expect to see them follow dtv's lead and start major harrassment and legal proceedings against any and everyone they can.
grusome

(I'd be shocked if they didn't)

[animaljim2]

Originally Posted by scotpgot

I'm relatively new to this FTA thing, and I understand what you're all saying, but while the manufacturers have a monetary interest in keeping these things working, doesn't DN have an interesting in finding a system that keep them shut out?

And as far as I understand, while manufacturing/selling FTAs is not an illegal activity, hacking into DN programming IS. How much does that factor in to all this?

If you ran a business, annual income of 1 million dollars, annual out put 6 hundred thousand to keeep that business running, would u then bring your yearly gross of 4 hundred grand down to lets say 150 grand to keep a handful of people from reciving your goods, or would the logical thing to do is to try and someway work along with them and boost your annual gross from 400Gs to say 550Gs, remember now for the extra 150 grand ur doing nuttin but making it look like ur fighting the so call criminals.
For 1, anything in the air is free, i dont care what kind of signal it is, if i can build somthing to recieve your transmission over the air waves there is nuttin u or anyone can do about it, if u could then the governments of the world would have the rights to charge people a tax just for breathing, its all a cat and mouse game, FTA will never die, NEVER, the old model recievers might become extinct but that is life, it will live on

[idon]

Originally Posted by boobmeister

So if there is indeed multi millions of dollars tied up in FTA boxes and accessories, then why so few coders? Also how much faith do we have in the statement that the MAP has been fully decoded? If so then why is it stated to not purchase any new hardware? None really makes much sense however i do believe that there will be a fix.

you learn quickly

[SEADOG]

Great Post. I Hope It's Soon...

[MrMajik]

I have yet to read this thought posted anywhere so here it is:

What if DN secretly supports all of this? Think about it...

Nag2 was not put in place to stop people from receiving their signal without a subscription. It was a business investment to improve their product. So it seems that back when Nag1 programming moved to Nag2 a lot of "buzz" on the Internet was created. This drew a lot of attention to DN which increased the familiarity of DN to the general population.

Commerical time is sold by ratings. Do you think the people paying for the commerical time cares if those watching are hacking the signal or paying for it? I don't think they care. They care about exposure. Right now there are much fewer people watching DN due to the outage which means commerical time is not as valuable.

I have to wonder if the satellite providers are somehow involved in all of this. How much do you think the STB makers would pay to get info from the satellite folks to get their product going again? The providers would not give out the entire secret but just enough to get everyone going again and BAM! Sales increase and the providers get a heafty kickback. Therefore the satellite providers make money from those who would never pay for a subscription in the first place.

If you think from a business standpoint this is not all that crazy of an idea. More viewers = better ratings = higher cost to advertisers. Make money off of everyone receiving your signal...

Just my .02 worth.

[Bobbert1277]

good thoery, but maybe knock out tv for a week or two at the longest, even when the fix comes through, whoever does it first, ppl aren't going to run and buy that stb. Their going to wait and see how long it is till the next ecm. If what you said was the case, dn would prolly pick one stb maker and do long term business with them to make it look like that maker can crack the code!! I'm not saying your wrong, this is how I'd look at it, if that was the case...

[boobmeister]

It doesn't even need to be Charlie who is working with the STB makers to produce the bin's. All that is needed is one inside man who will share the code used in the ECM's to various STB companies. Kind of like the cable guy who comes to hook the neighbor up and you give him a tip to hook you up as well.

[falcon]

Originally Posted by MrMajik

Nag2 was not put in place to stop people from receiving their signal without a subscription. It was a business investment to improve their product. So it seems that back when Nag1 programming moved to Nag2 a lot of "buzz" on the Internet was created. This drew a lot of attention to DN which increased the familiarity of DN to the general population.

I'll play "devil's advocate" here a bit and leave you with some questions. Did Nagra2 improve the product? No new channels or anything else I can think of. And then why change from ROM101 N2 card and go to ROM102? Because they knew 101 was compromised and knew 102 was not.

All providers, DISH and DTV *have* to stop all attempts to compromise the integrity of their signal. That's why they do ECMs. And they have shareholders to answer to as well. The more "paying" customers, the more profits, the better the bottom line.

Commerical time is sold by ratings. Do you think the people paying for the commerical time cares if those watching are hacking the signal or paying for it? I don't think they care. They care about exposure. Right now there are much fewer people watching DN due to the outage which means commerical time is not as valuable.

The ratings won't increase if 10 million hackers are watching a particular show. The ratings then can't be measured. Only through subscribed means can they do Neilsen ratings, and such.

I have to wonder if the satellite providers are somehow involved in all of this. How much do you think the STB makers would pay to get info from the satellite folks to get their product going again? The providers would not give out the entire secret but just enough to get everyone going again and BAM! Sales increase and the providers get a heafty kickback. Therefore the satellite providers make money from those who would never pay for a subscription in the first place.

I don't follow you at all on this one. Why would a provider stop you from stealing, just to allow it again? And where would their kickback be by you continuing to steal?

If you think from a business standpoint this is not all that crazy of an idea. More viewers = better ratings = higher cost to advertisers. Make money off of everyone receiving your signal...

I appreciate your views. I just don't share them. Too many holes in the logic. Sorry!

[pdogg]

thanks for that need to know news,patience will pay off ,it always does.

[carvin]

I disagree falcon...Ive been in this since the H card times, and the H to HU had everyone buying new equipment, and when the P4 never came everyone went to buy FTA receivers, I have no doubt that new tv fixes will come, and almost definately new hardware will be required to get it