Defense chief giving 'don't ask, don't tell' a closer look

[cruzat]

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- For the first time, U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates is outlining potential Obama administration plans to enforce the "don't ask, don't tell" rule selectively so that some gays could serve in the military.

Gates said he is looking at ways to make the policy "more humane," including letting people serve who may have been outed due to vengeance or a jilted lover. The remarks appeared in a transcript the Pentagon released Tuesday.

In addition, Capt. John Kirby, spokesman for Adm. Michael Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Wednesday the chairman "supports the idea of a less draconian way of enforcing the policy."

Instituted in 1993, "don't ask, don't tell" ended the military's practice of asking potential service members if they are gay, but it requires the dismissal of openly gay service members.

Gates told reporters traveling with him, "One of the things we're looking at -- is there flexibility in how we apply this law?"

Gates indicated he is looking at several options. "Let me give you an example. Do we need to be driven when the information, to take action on somebody, if we get that information from somebody who may have vengeance in mind or blackmail or somebody who has been jilted?"

Gates said he has discussed the issue with President Obama and also during a meeting with his top war-fighting commanders last week.

At that military meeting, Gates said, "The issue that we face is that how do we begin to do preparations and simultaneously the administration move forward in terms of asking the Congress to change the law."

Shortly before the president's inauguration, spokesman Robert Gibbs said Obama was committed to repealing the policy. In a response to a question on the Web site Change.gov asking whether Obama would get rid of "don't ask, don't tell," Gibbs said: "You don't hear politicians give a one-word answer much. But it's 'Yes.' "

Gibbs later clarified that "not everything will get done in the beginning, but [the president is] committed to following through" with ending the policy.

During the presidential campaign, Obama said he would work to end the policy, but because it is dictated by federal law, he cannot end it unilaterally.

Five months into his presidency, Obama has been criticized for not moving fast enough to propose a repeal of the rule to Congress. Gates did not indicate the Pentagon was yet supporting a full repeal.

"What we have is a law -- be it a policy or a regulation -- and as I discovered when I got into it, it's a very prescriptive law. It doesn't leave much to the imagination for a lot of flexibility. And so one of the things we're looking at -- is there flexibility in how we apply this law?"

The secretary appears to be proposing interim measures. "If somebody is outed by a third party ... does that force us to take an action? And I don't know the answer to that, and I don't want to pretend to," Gates said. "But that's the kind of thing we're looking at to see if there's at least a more humane way to apply the law until the law gets changed."

President Clinton tried to lift the ban on gays in the military when he took office, but the military leadership strenuously opposed him.

Congress stripped Clinton of his power to change the policy and forced him to accept the "don't ask, don't tell" compromise, a law that only Congress can repeal.
/http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/01/gates.gays/index.html

[cruzat]

"more humane,"?

The word humane goes hand and hand with the word nature.
There is nothing at all natural about homosexuals.

Homosexuality is against nature so how can you say anything could be humane when talking about homosexuals?

Yeah we see where the Obama administration is heading.
And drives me nuts to hear him say that he is a Christian.

[OriginalCrazyone]

I'm sorry if this offends you, but I completely disagree with you.

I am a straight Christian male, but does not the bible say in mathew (I'm paraphrasing here) don't judge others till you are clean of all sins? and how it is God's place to sit in judgement and not mans? how about the ten commandment where it says Thou shall not steal? it also says in 2 peter to (paraphrasing again) follow the laws of man as long as they aren't a sin?

is not the purpose of this forum to provide people with the tools to commit signal theft, thereby stealing and disobeying the law? so before you sit in judgement of the gay man who wants to serve his country, then you better have your life clean or God will judge you as harshly.

Some of the finest men and women I have ever known have been gay. 2 of my best friends are gay. I may not agree with their lifestyle, but I am not going to condemn them for it, it isn't my place, for I am not God.

why shouldn't we allow any man or woman willing to stand and fight for our liberties to be in the military? what is wrong with the Christian society that has developed through the years, the inquisitions, the witch hunts, the interference into former leaders private affairs they had no business sticking their noses into, and the gays? Did not jesus live among the sinners while on our planet, to set the example to show them a better way of life? You claim to be Christian (literal meaning: Christ like) yet your actions are the exact opposite of that which Christ would do and are an abomination to the term.

I hate the way the modern movements of "Christianity" are hypocritical and judgmental. We are to be Christ like in our walk with God, to set an example of the way to live to those who do not believe, so that they may see the blessings our heavenly father provides, and not to tear down and destroy those who we think are wrong. it is not our place to judge, Vengeance is the Lords, and not ours to dish out.

-OcO-

[cruzat]

Some of us here view what we are doing in different ways.

I'm not stealing anyone's signal.
Just because someone comes on a site that has many things to offer does not mean they are doing them all.

As for the bible it speaks strongly against "gays" so therefore it is the job of Christian that follow the bible to speak out against it.

It is also Gods place to sit in judgement on of Satan and the anti-Christ but does he not give us the power and command to fight them?

I suggest that before you quote scripture that you read more of it.

The judgement that you speak of is eternal judgement and yes that is for God but God gives us the right and even commands in some cases that we sit in judgement of what happens in the earthly realm (what happens here on earth) to shape our destiny.

Does the bible not say that "thou shalt not kill"?
Yet God commands that murderers be put to death by the hand of man.
Yet God has supported war.

So again I say before you quote scripture maybe you should read the scriptures.

I am not going to condemn them for it, it isn't my place, for I am not God.

God has already condemned them so it is our place to preach against them according to Gods words.

[OriginalCrazyone]

By Jesus's example on earth, from my interpretation (and I make no claim to be an expert on the bible) isn't our role as Christians not to preach at them, but to set an example unto them by showing them what God wants our lives to be here on this earth, so we may assist as many of our brothers and sisters in finding God? Alot of todays Christian movements forget that Jesus while here lived, worked and walked among those considered the worst sinners, the prostitutes, the thieves and murderers and instead of condemning them, he showed them through kindness and love what their lives could be if they walked God's path instead of the worldly path. He led by example and teaching, not condemning and preaching at them. His words were in kindness, not harsh, just a nudge in the right direction. "All have fallen, and come short of the glory of God" Jesus Christ showed compassion to those others condemned, showed mercy and allowed them the opportunity to come to him for forgiveness, he didn't force his will upon them. God gave us free will for a reason, that if someone is changing their lives because they are forced to by those in judgement, than it is not a true belief, but the forced will of another person over their life. In revelations, is it not said that many will come before God's judgement, believing that they have been faithful, and God will not know them? For someone to truely believe it requires them to come to God willingly, not to be led by someone because they force them to believe it is the right thing to do. Yes, God is a vengeful being, but he showed the greatest compassion by giving the ultimate sacrifice, his son to die for our sins, sending him to us to show us the way, not to force us onto the path he intended. It is our place as Christians to show an example to the world, to help those willing to freely turn their lives over to our Heavenly Father, but not to force our belief on them, for that denies them free will and denies them true faith in God.

You sound like you are strong of your faith in God... but the person you persecute and condemn for not sharing your beliefs is going to turn further away from God rather than turn to him, because they will see Christians as intolerant and closed minded and will shy away from understanding the greater truth of our faith.

-OcO-